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tv   Book TV  CSPAN  November 13, 2011 1:00am-2:45am EST

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cities and protestants in the small towns and farms across the northeast new england and the midwest. this resonated to this constituency and catholicism. and so lincoln campaigned under that slogan in 1858. >> you can watch this and other programs on line at otb.org. ..
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describe in the book your father's early years as adventuresome of which involve some trickery but all of which involve a great deal of bravery. are there any moments of which he was particularly proud of his participation and any that you think he would have changed? .. first went to see good evening. thank you all for coming. i appreciate it a lot. sorry, would you repeat the question? >> as the country was being born, you're father was a key part of a number of military operations which you described his personal bravery but looking at it from this perspective, are there things he was particularly proud of that he talked about when you were growing up and
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things you think he may have regretted in those early years? >> my father could have been a farmer. maybe he would miss -- he could be right there going in another direction. actually this was not his first choice. he never thought of himself in the early years as someone who was going to have a military career. his first love was forming. i can remember our endless drives in the farm driving between the sheep and the cattle my father had a very hard time even when they were not productive anymore, so i would say that if it would be up to you we would open an old age
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home for sheep and cows that do not give birth or milk. he would just say give it another chance. i would say this was not his first choice. during the war of independence, my father as a young officer was the one the was chosen to lead the attack in order to open the road to jerusalem the was cut off by our forces. the attack failed. he was badly wounded when pitted his platoon was left alone on the battlefield. there were 35 platoon members. only four survived the attack. all the rest were either killed
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or wounded and he himself was left alone on the battlefield wounded. his story of survival was no less than a miracle. i describe it of course in the book, but because of that all of day, may 26, 1948, he said the rules that became a value to the entire army we do not leave our men behind. a very relevant today meant to what. now when we were kids he took us to that spot where he was badly wounded and to jerusalem
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everyday he was passing that place. there is no single time that i drive there and am not thinking about him and that that all of day, that hot and fire a round alone over there so i would say this is the most remarkable event in that war and that brought a value that is still being kept in sight today. >> que covered both of my first two questions with that one answer. i was going to talk about that. >> as a long run. >> a wonderful answer but i'm going to skip. during the war 1967 your father commanded an army division and you described the troops into motion. can you talk about his role in the war mike and how he looked back on that in later years?
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>> it's very interesting because after the 67 war, suddenly all of the terror attacks that we suffered during the 1950's and the 1960's were forgotten, and suddenly after the 67 war after the west bank and the strip became a part, suddenly all the previous or forgotten and all of a sudden there was an excuse for that. as they call it the occupation. but, i mean, for 19 years between 67 to 48 those territories, why didn't the establish a palestinian state back then? and so, and 67 in the center of
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the country is less than 10 miles was in threat of elimination as the common phrase once was wiped off with -- >> white of the face of the earth. >> when he was a division commander in the south. his mission was a most difficult one to break through the stronghold. it was a brilliant battle that has been taught all over the world since then and there was the main actor during the war but i want to tell you about my father.
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after that great victory on the battle was the first day of the war and he actually opened this for the entire army. he was driving in his military vehicle and on the side road he saw an egyptian prisoners of war mike and he stopped and went down, sentenced the soldier to prison because he always said in the war you fight, that's the nature of its but when a man as your prisoner you've got to act like a human being. this is my father. >> can we talk about how you're father left the military? the interviews he gave to the "los angeles times" and his feeling about the -- >> excuse me? >> when he left the military he left at a time he gave to
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interviews to american newspapers. >> i don't remember those interviews, i mean i was seven. my english now is not that good. [laughter] >> talk more worldly about the war and how he felt about that war. >> well she did something that was the first act was founding the party. he took opposition parties and created a big one and by doing that he gave real meaning for the democracy because for the first time there was the chance to have the change after decades of the party ruling the country and that is what allowed him for
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the government for years later. the war was a terrible war that of a leadership allowed with the country to be surprised that, so they ignored all of the prewar signs and actually allowed the army to be caught by surprise. however, the crossing, the bitter crossing battle crossing the swiss canal that my father conducted coming and it was a bitter battle managed to bring the change in the war when the forces were at the end of the war from cairo with no egyptian force that could stop them into
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the was after being caught by surprise so i would say that is one of the biggest victories that my father and the idea of the army had. he lost a good friends in that war, his closest friend was killed. but crossing this was calcite we lost about 3,000 men in that war might get for us each person is -- we take one and give a thousand how our feelings are and this started as the trauma
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and is still lives but it ended in a great victory. estimate your father left the military right after that. >> i remember after he crossed to the canal he called home and was talking to me and he said i'm talking to you from africa. i wasn't sure what was going on. his face was very strong in he was laughing of course. he left the army before the war. he was there in the reserve division commander.
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>> what pushed him from the military into politics? >> he was searching since the age of 17 and so, it was obvious that he was not going to come he was not interested in business. it was the natural way to continue. mr. secure father was appointed agriculture of minister and at some point in the book you say that he saw the military and the agricultural aspect of israel as two sides of the same claim. can you talk about how the areas which seem different in the united states, we do not typically have politicians who are farmers, well, jimmy carter, but there are not a lot of them throughout. can you talk about how you're
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father was so closely intertwined. he went to the cabinet positions for defense or security and agriculture. >> in november, 1977 and were settled, the egyptian president came and my father was an minister of agriculture then. the first question that he asked was if the general was here and he said yes, he is. when he was shaking hands, he called my father and said i'm trying to catch you in the desert near the swiss canal and my father said you have the chance to catch me now and they did have a very good relationship. i remember one of the visits that my father visited some
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thought in the palace in cairo and he wanted to develop areas which mostly are in the western desert to grow the egyptians. he asked my father to go on tour of that area because as you know my father had both sides, the military and the farming in the agriculture. and so my father found himself sitting in the presidential airplane and the pilots were the to the egyptian jet pilots that only a few years before and several years before were trying to kill the cat now, taking the bridgehead and fleeing their
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with the egyptian pilots he got the feeling of what this was about. here we were trying to attack my father and myself and now we are all flying around because we want to grow wheat. it was better like that. and of course the conditions were much better. it was the egyptian air force one with after all. the borders were shaved in some areas by the settlements. to answer your question i would have to go back to 1947, november 29, 1947 the u.n.
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resolution 181 what is known as the petitioners revolution and a suggested establishing the two states, a jewish one and arab one. the jews accepted the resolution and the arabs rejected it. if the palestinians would accept the petition resolution back then, they would have a palestinian state. they could have 63 im but they rejected it, they'll into war and joined by the army to eliminate israel. there wouldn't be a single palestinian refugee. but as we know they chose differently unfortunately. once the argument's going to the is there a solution. well, where have you been all those years?
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there was one before the committee that suggested a different kind of division, and one of their criteria was we so places that were headed by the comparative way of living in israel, communities. for instance in the cease-fire of 1949 was contributed as a part of israel but we didn't have a settlement there and so the syrians managed to push from
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that area but when you have community you have to defend and so it was this was the connection between the two things. it was a long answer. i'm sorry about that. >> it is a segue because i think your father was also the chairman of the ministry on settlements and he embraced the growing subtle movement. but over time they changed or appeared to change. if we watch history. can you talk about his early thoughts and the progression how he viewed the settlement cracks >> the settlements were chosen in order to ensure of the major three problems that we had. the problem that we had it the 10-mile wide country, this is less than the usual form in texas, the country is left in new jersey and is a tiny little
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country. so they reach above the coast line above the international or the national airport, about 80% of the population and in the facilities they are all concentrate on the coast line and so above the coast line this was the first thing. the second was jerusalem was a united city to prevent that jerusalem would become and the
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third one was what we refer to as the eastern front and this is a scenario but is not fictional because it happened that israel would be attacked from the stand that happened in 48 and 67 and that happened in 73. and so, protect israel from being attacked from forces the what comes from jordan, they didn't attack in 73 but the forces went to syria and in the previous war as the saudi forces we do not have any dispute but with what they joined the iraqi forces and jordanians in some of their war and syrians of course so deutsch and from the east, but let me surprise you. my father was talking about a
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palestinian state d miller tries to on part of the land but he was talking about that already in the late 1970's and so he knew i guess that not all of the settlements would stay. he withdrew from gaza but there are areas we have to keep forever what otherwise the security. stomachs and his opinions didn't change in terms of the settlement, they didn't involve someone who wanted to expand or someone who was willing to unilaterally. that's certainly been the common.
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>> those that were critical for our security should be left for ever. we went out from gaza. the palestinians could have it all. the whole world would give them money. it could be the best place in the middle east but instead we got rockets and a tax and there are rockets that sometimes fall on our farm. our children's school is also being fired at seoul but regarding the west bank there are areas that should be in our
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hands forever because we cannot put our security in anyone else, hence that was proven time after time and i don't see any changes here. this was the principal. you know, if he saw all of the places that we remain. but yes, definitely. >> moving for other for word can you talk about drew westen to the mountain? >> it wasn't my father's first visit to the temple. it's a free country.
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petraeus bernanke was not aware that it would cause controversy. >> barack obama in these negotiations was willing to give up parts of jerusalem that more the public would agree to, so my father was protesting against those concessions. by the way after a few months when the election came, my father beat him almost 2-1 and that proves they are not approved. >> he mentioned the military will come from that wasn't this fall caused. does he expect the drama and the after effect of further it cost
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muzzled but it created a good deal of international drama. >> let me ask a question if i may. was your connection between. i don't know of the area between us. was the connection between that and exploding buses? what's the connection. so, -- >> i'm not suggesting. i just want to have some kind of cause and effect so my interest was afterwards. since '67, jews were for hundreds of years the first time
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on. the time that can go to all the places in jerusalem. before 67 jews cannot go there. >> i know you said earlier your father believed no soldier should be left behind. you're referenced by bit like you to talk more about how you think your father would have speak felt about the deal struck west week for the freedom. >> he was held without anyone able to visit him not even the red cross to read this is illegal, this is not human. you could see how he looked like when he came back and with the
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prisoners looked like. there is a difference when. we do not leave our men behind. >> you think your father would have approved -- >> i don't know accept the conditions or what we could have done or not, if there was another option, i'm not suggesting this is the only option to bring. the story of jubilee who was a sergeant he fell into the -- he was captured by jordanians army in prison and jordan. my father was a commander at that time and so -- i'm
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describing get in the book there was action to to catch the jordanian soldiers and then was quickly replaced. but, you know, sometimes -- when he had a prisoner that is held by a country the red cross visits you know what's going on but when a terrorist organization is holding a guy for more than or almost five and a half years, how long was it, five years and four months. no one knows what's going on. so you should do anything you can in order to bring him back home. but you know, i had few interesting comments from arab countries and they would say i wish my country would make and you could take care of me and israel was worried, i wish my country would care about me so much instead of shooting me in
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the streets they would do anything to bring me back to. it might seem as weakness but i don't see it that way. we care about people were. >> i'm going to wrap up, one last question so i can turn it over to the audience. what do you think and hope your father's legacy will be? >> my father was always a member and historical leader. he enjoyed unmentionable support but not only in israel. he had close relations with our leaders. i remember the egyptian president on december, 2004 saying the only chance for
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peace. this was after the four years of the continuous war against the palestinians and i remember the story about the king abdullah who inherited his respect and a lot from my father and when my father was a minister they were so close he wanted to give my father as a present a beautiful purebred arabian horse. my father told the king looked, in the prime minister's office we have a room for the president and prime minister. what will they do with the host on their? what type of horse what was going to feed the horse of the jordanians dropped the subject for but in the paper published from the wealth of our farm and
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the horses in this table so the issue was raised again and we were just that close from a diplomatic incident with the key was insulted. so at the end of the horse was left in the stables in jordan but sometimes when money breitman horse they asked me is that the king's horse? >> my source is a beautiful horse but it is not a gift from the king and was not in our area. the prime minister and will was doing my research for the book march, 2010, he told me i have a huge respect for your father. he was a courageous man and a visionary leader, and when i was
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invited to will leal loss one to president bush in july, 2008 he told me i had my ear your dad and so i think this is how he will always be remembered. >> thank you very much. now it is time for questions from the rest of you if you come to the microphone and lineup. i would ask you keep your questions brief. you're certainly entitled to express your opinion but we want to get as many as possible. we will turn on when it is time to start so just hang on. if he would keep your questions briefly would be grateful and they go on too long i will ask you to drive up. >> as you are speaking about humanitarian issues, how do you take it that israel has a military and palestine doesn't yet you still continue to give curfews and do you recognize the
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genocide happening by the israeli troops? >> palestinians wouldn't have troops i would say most of the terror attacks during the year my father was primm and mr. were committed by palestinian authority forces for 17 from the presidential guard, so i wouldn't say they don't have any. the problem of they were committing terror. >> you didn't answer my question about palestine. >> he is asking about the curfew in palestine. this time by which people can't be in their home. they have to be off the street. keeping people safe on the evening if you won't have i guess you would feel bad if you're kid's school would be
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fired in one or if your school bus, the yellow one was driving. somebody pushed the trigger while knowing and is a yellow bus so we do everything to protect our kids. our measures i would say by far being humanitarian that what you see in the arab countries for their own people. >> i'm sure you remember whether things such as with the infamous yet 101 such as the massacre when he was defense minister and subject of the massacre in 2002 when he was p.m. with other crimes which are too numerous, less right now. i'm really curious to note sincerely was this some sort of traumatic experience in his
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childhood that later turned to me and asked for a trustee of past during his cool political career. [applause] >> deride get the impression you don't get along with my father. >> that's reasonable to say. >> solyndra. >> if you want to ask a question and going to ask you to come and visit to the microphone. giblin from the audience isn't going to help any part of the conversation. all of it is. >> there wasn't here unfortunately when democracies like the middle west and israel, civilian sometimes to get hurt, but the difference is that terrorists. >> i suppose because women and children were murdered anybody in the way of the settlement.
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>> you talk so fast in my english was not -- >> it's the morrill sign more concerned about to d'aspin it is difficult to understand you from the serve i would also ask you to see it civilly. just say it more slowly. it was a heavy crime, terrible tragedy but we should remember there was a christian arabs who are murdered and held him personally responsible and said he should never be in the government again which is the best advice they never give in. >> you're wrong about commission conclusion. they said there wasn't a single israeli that was involved or did a fence. they said he should have known and you know what, "time"
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magazine published an article on february, 1983 suggesting my father encouraged the christians to murder the palestinians so my father immediately decided to sue. i met with him on the very first day of the trial and new york and in the days after and both costs in the united states and israel found that the people in the magazine acted carelessly and so what you say is wrong. you are from what. islamic both found him what north irresponsible. in the regime in 2002 and then the other incidents through the years starting with bling of wit to the death in 2006 and the
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european foreign commissionaire reset in august of 2011 also omans under international law for illegal so there's no excuse for settlement in the territory with housing minister during the 70's and furiously was expanding the settlements -- >> regarding west bank why was there any state established between 40 and 67 a and let me ask why would the palestinian in their own character the lowest published june 6, 19643 years before the war and the vote article 24 but they didn't wish to have sovereignty over you know why because what would you prefer to as the occupation of
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their reasoning and we would never accept our right to have the jewish state in the area, never accepted in the arena and that is the reason we have not or the palestinian authority because they do not recognize our right to have a jewish state ha. >> i'm going to go to another questioner at this point because you had an opportunity. if we have a chance you can come back later. go ahead, sir. [applause] >> as a palestinian american who strongly dislikes your father i would like to to the time to think you for coming today and my question was your father once told purchased in years ago on october a quote and i've always
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been wondering about this. he said every time we do something you tell me america will do this and that. i want to tell you something very quick. don't worry about american pressure on israel. we control america and the americans know it did what did he mean by that? >> that's false. he never said that to respect the radio reported that he said -- >> that's false. he would never say that because. >> it is widely known that he said that. >> but i'm telling you that's not right. >> if you want to speak come to the microphone. we have our happy to welcome all use. >> he was actually told he should watch what he said because there would be to, in the international community. >> i know my father very well and i know this isn't something that he ever thought or
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believed. >> you are going to have to agree to disagree. that >> he recently visited to talk about your book and you asked if he felt remorse for what happened at the camps where the palestinians were slaughtered under ideas of control when sherman was defense minister use said and i quote my question is why did he allow the christians to enter the camp and pointed and he stopped the camps? , know the shoes were involved in their own capital. this wasn't our business inside who is going to rule the approach. we want an end to go out from
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their. it was being fired for years. now, it is full with military targets but they were aiming, they were looking for civilians and so the idea to stop that and was a terrible tragedy. not the first one or the last one in lebanon. in 76 christians killed palestinians and in 76 the killed and then and christians killed christians, syrians killed palestinians but no one seemed to care. only when they thought they might get to the israelis involved somehow everybody
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started to care about that. >> going back to what you said i know it was the christians but he was the defense minister said he had to the power to stop them but why didn't he? >> we need speakers of the microphone only. you can't be heard by the rest of the audience. >> he didn't see the event that something like that would have been. unfortunately, it happened not for the first time in lebanon or the last time unfortunately. >> i'm wondering and it may be unfair to ask what you're father might think of something he's not been able to observe himself but what do you think of the future of the international relations will look like after the past year and a half after the space reform we have seen around the world and what do you think your father would have thought of those given his history with the countries surrounding israel? >> i'm not sure that we see
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space reforms. we do see the elections into nisha but for a egypt for instance, mubarak left. these would be a big achievement i'm not sure which we are going to see that democracy is what we would wish to see. most probably will see the same or even worse. erotically islam regimes might take power. i don't know. we have with debt be carefully
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and what do we give. >> i had an article published in the morning in "new york times" which discusses them a more to be released soon, and it discussed the plans, the confidential conversations that he had with mahmoud all in the boss regarding a potential secret settlement agreement to trim the israelis and the palestinians and basically it out line that foot on the table here is the map of the jerusalem outlining areas to its internationalized jerusalem here's where we are going to do and how it up so settlements roughly equivalent to 94% in the west bank. was that something initiated by your father? what he approved of it or is this something he was only.
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my father never thought of anything like that and would not approve that. >> go ahead, sir. >> this isn't about your father this is just your perspective. i followed the staying in contact as last 30 years or so in the last two or three or four years has been a bit of a change in terms of the sort of american perception on the and i don't think i'm speaking out of turn to say that perhaps, i don't know what percentage but a large percentage of americans are starting to feel a certain impatience with israel or were the allied, but i think this less i sense from what i read
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and what i hear when i talk to people, this list patients for israel, not just. what happened is in the sense that israel was the most in power of the actors and that this is just an impatience that israel perhaps doesn't take a different pitch of the things it could to stimulate the peace talks as were just enough to get it moving. you were probably with j st. which is difficult in response to i think the long time traditional position in the united states, support for israel. my question, a lot of preamble, but -- story. [laughter] my question is in israel is there a perception within israel of this feeling within the united states,.
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is there a widening division what israel can or should do to sort of move the process so it is a two-part question. provide of the united states and our political feeling and then what is the tener growth. >> that's a good question. >> first about the ties between the u.s. and israel. i believed these relationships are strong and based on the mutual and we should see more
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against the radical islamic terrorism and i think that the thais are as strong as they used to be because the base is the same. but regarding to what we can do or what was the second question? >> windows israel since any impatience or less of -- this is real feeling the united states some growing trends? you know about g street for a sample. >> was a developed sorted in response to a pack, the lobbying group in the traditional israel lobbying group? >> we need to wind this up. >> are you aware of those organizations? >> i think i heard about it. 1i am not sure familiar with her in their actions, but i don't see any decline in the reduction
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and i'm happy about it. >> the second part of the netz movement. break down and left and right and israel itself for peace process or lack thereof. >> there's not a difference today in the parties because a lot of the mantel. the big question is what would be the palestinian boundaries, and of course it should be the mother tries to because we suffered enough from terrorism during the years. surfing the problem in a peaceful way and we got a lot of terror after that.
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regarding how it should be conducted. i'm not sure that the actual -- some of usa waste to start dillinger negotiations right away. i believe that this is not -- if the palestinians would ask my opinion, and i'm sure they would not, but they can have a palestinian state right now. they do not have to find their borders. so what, their restaurants, if the trend is a palestinian state, why don't you take it now. the years will pass and you will enjoy prosperity. they will learn to trust. if you go to the u.n., you say we want to get everything we demand. why bother to negotiate. if you can get it all without
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giving anything. and so. i hope i answered your question in a way. >> i'm going to answer because those. let me just tell you something. most of the palestinians who were arrested and that are now in the jails, they were arrested illegally. some of the hour 18 to 20-years-old and have been on a hunger strike then one night. i don't feel you have the right to talk about the humanity because you know don't know what humanity is.
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he was not entitled to of the red cross visiting. that's come up and get in line the and if you want to respond, comeback. the palestinians in the prison are allowed to be visited. >> families go there. >> lies. it's responsible for exploding should be out there in the streets. islamic not all of the people who are in jail exploded bosses. >> and the ones that aren't responsible, do you think they should be in prison.
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they don't get medical care in prison. >> did you see how he looked out for only to better. the awakens. cohen,. from reagan. obviously this was the hot lead debated issue. now in retrospect. what are your thoughts? advantageous? >> what is the political benefits to withdraw.
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we wouldn't be sitting in loeb. as of the question that was left was should we wait for an agreement that might never a right or should we do what is best for us? and he and a great leadership and spirit he took a decision and executed it. now people say that the rockets against that fired in the towns and are the outcome of what the moving out from gaza who, but the rocket started before. the first rocket launcher near where we lived or fired on april 16th, 2001, but our ability to fight from gazzo was limited to. and so if you ask me.
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i want to give devotee a voice first, so please, go ahead. >> i also don't like you or you're father. but a lot of -- >> it's hard for us to hear you. >> a lot of people found it hilarious the people left the holocaust and created one. how do you feel about that? >> the israelis didn't take any one of them and put them in gas chambers so show some respect, will you? >> i'm not talking about that. i'm talking about a lot of people still killing a matter how you kill them you still told them, the ended up dead. to keep recognizing how the people or george children got blown up and when buses. people of palestine recognized that and you don't hear that in any way. i don't hear you say that you are upset from their sidey for what you want peace.
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>> i'm upset with every loss of life but let me tell you that when terrorists are intentionally high among civilians they do get hurt but the terrorists are intentionally setting for civilians. >> are you saying that not all of the martyred this? >> i'm sorry? >> are you saying they are terrorists by. estimate they were just next to -- >> hs want to clarify one thing. i think you need to start differentiating between terrorism and the jihad. it is a struggle so when somebody's family gets lost and they have nothing else they are inside a struggle and i think this is where the bus bombings, and people to commit suicide seven jihadists a struggle because something happened they just don't call themselves that out of nowhere. to move on to my question is
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used for off by saying that israel in 1948 had a 10-mile radius of the country and they have ideas of expansion. by expansion you went in there forcefully, and in history that have been forcefully. don't you think that israel was the first one to initiate force and regress back and give them less and less and less and less and less. >> i think i should refresh your memory. they rejected the plan on 47 that they would accept it and the palestinians would have the palestinian street right now. the reason - they have less and less is because they were not happy with what was offered. the commission offered them almost the whole country. the jews accepted it but they
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rejected it. in 1947 they were offered less. the jews accepted.
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